Inner Work Day

Speaker 1 (00:04):

Hi, everyone. Welcome to inner Workday. I'm really thrilled to be here with you to talk about the science of inner work. I'm a vice president here at BetterUp and the author of the sweet spot, how to accomplish more by doing less. And in the next half hour, I'm gonna be in conversation with Sean Aker and Rhonda McGee to talk about what inner work actually is and the benefits of it and how we can establish a habit of inner work in just one minute a day. So without further ado, I'm gonna turn it over to Sean to introduce himself and kick us off. Hello everyone.

Speaker 2 (00:39):

I'm Sean ACOR. I'm the author of the happiness advantage and big potential and a researcher in the field of positive psych.

Speaker 3 (00:46):

Hi everyone. I'm Rhonda McGee and I'm a law professor by day and a mindfulness teacher for many, many years by night's weekends. And whenever else I can. So I'd like to just kick off this cold conversation by level setting a bit for the audience. We just wanna a little bit about, you know, what inner work really means what we mean by the inner work. And so what I'd like to do is just kind of open us up with just some reflection on the fact that when we talk about inner work, we're not talking about simply mindfulness, right? Although as a mindfulness teacher, that's a big part of it for me and by mindfulness, I simply mean those practices that increase our ability to be present with with greater awareness of the, the, the inner operations of our mind, our thoughts, our emotions, the habits, patterns, and conditions that drive us.

Speaker 3 (01:44):

And there are so many diff different ways to do this kind of work that mindfulness is, as I say, just a part of it. And it is a part though of the broader movement toward increasing wellbeing, which helps us look at not only awareness that we can support by mindfulness practices, but the ways we connect with each other more effectively, the ways we deepen understanding and insight about our experiences and our habits and the things that can trip us up when we're on our way to doing our very best in the world. And finally wellbeing of course includes a sense of meaning and purpose. So I'd like to really, of course, over the course of the time, share a little bit about some of the research that supports how mindfulness can poor, you know, broader wellbeing in the world. Decades now of research has really helped clarify for us that mindfulness certainly supports positive developments in our psychological makeup and wellbeing, the capacity, ultimately to have a more flexible sense of self and relat to the triggers and, you know, the different, you know, experiences that any one of us will have in the, in the world and deeply can support us in healing from some of the ways that one of us may have suffered trauma or wounding in our past.

Speaker 3 (03:06):

So that from this point we can begin each day with a sense of purpose, a sense of our inherent belonging, a sense of the capacity we each have to make the most of power that we have to make a difference. So I'd love to turn to Sean and really get your reflections on what we might mean by inner work.

Speaker 2 (03:28):

So thank you so much RH. When I first got into doing this research on positive psychology, I was fascinated by the idea that that inner work that you're describing could really transform our inner olds. So we could see people's level of compassion, rising they'd feel calm. Their levels of happiness would rise. Their creativity would improve, but the more we got into it, we started realizing what that, that inner work actually had outer results as well. That was the research that was doing initially with the happiness advantage. We did a study of one out of every six Harvard student. And what we found was as the brain became more positive, every single business and educational outcome, we knew how to test for started to rise dramatically as well. That that inner work we were doing around gratitude or journaling or exercise or meditation or mindfulness, was having an impact upon the way that we performed in the world around.

Speaker 2 (04:20):

We found that our productivity rose by 31% sales cross industry by 37%, we've lived longer. Our symptoms would become less acute everything we test for on the standardized test, a C, T and S a T in the United States rose dramatically when the human brain was positive first. So we started going out and trying to spread that idea of inner work out to more people, but in doing so, we learned something that's transformed the way that I've thought about inner work. Because when we started doing this, we had these organizations try to take on these ideas. So for example, in the midst of the global pandemic, I've been working a lot with hospitals and schools. We went out to school, school systems actually a decade ago to the poorest county in Iowa, we started doing inner work with the of teachers and the students and the staff.

Speaker 2 (05:03):

And we found that their a C T scores improved by 30%, their literacy scores rose dramatically. The engagement scores of teachers were the highest in a decade. Then we took it up to schools outside of Chicago. And we found in a school district that had 30% of the students on the free lunch program. We found that their AC academic scores, as they started to do this inner work, went from the 84th percentile for the state to the 95th. And now top 2% for the nation. At the same time, their depression rates were dropping by 30% and calls to 9 1, 1 centers were dropping nearly in half. Then we took it out to public schools in Flint, Michigan, right? Where in the midst of cyclical poverty, in the midst of racism, we were finding that this inner work would improve not only our outer results, but what we learned there was that if we were able to raise the levels of happiness, doing inner work with the teachers, the teachers, students, parents, or guardians wellbeing improved as well.

Speaker 2 (05:59):

And what we started to realize was inner work. Didn't just impact our inner world. Our inner work changed the inner worlds of other people, and that changed everything for me, cuz now what we realize was that if we thought about inner work is something we do alone, we're only getting small potential potential is what we achieve when we start to do inner work together. So one of the I wrote a book called big potential at the beginning of it's one of my favorite studies. It's not mine, but it I described how there are fireflies and lightning bugs across the globe. They light up individually and randomly in the dark to attract the mate. And when they do so that evolutionary strategy yields 3%, which I'm told is really good by whoever studies bugs do this <laugh> but it turns out on opposite sides of the globe.

Speaker 2 (06:46):

Researchers at MIT, one in Southeast Indonesia and one in the smokey mounts of Tennessee opposite sides of the globe, these species evolved to make it so that they could time their pulses to the millisecond using the, these neurotransmitters. So they light up and they go dark as an interconnected community. The researchers MIT found that when your, when the fireflies light up as an interconnected community, the success rate goes from 3% to 82% per bug. It wasn't like one bug was doing really well with the new system. <Laugh> right. Like keep going guys this night on my life, right? The entire, our system, who's doing orders of magnitude better than we thought was possible. And if we want big potential in this world, we need to find a way of using that inner work to enhance other people. So part of the inner work that we've been looking at is how we could get people to do very small habits, like a two minute positive habit praising or thanking someone else.

Speaker 2 (07:37):

Hey, we did it out at LinkedIn and we'll we found was that people received three touch points of praise from that in inner work that work of writing a two minute positive email in isolation, turns out the retention rates of new hires went from 80% to 94%. And if somebody received three touch points of praise, they doubled them out of praise. They give back into the system. What we were finding was we were able to use that inner work, to light up other people, but in doing so, we created these virtuous cycles where we started to all light up together as we move forward, which is my hope is that our concept of inner work is not just about something we do alone. But this thing where we realize that what we're doing has a huge impact, 2, 3, 4 degrees separate from us.

Speaker 3 (08:18):

Absolutely. Thank you so much, Sean. I can just feel your excitement for this. And it's making me more excited really, because what you're saying aligns very much with my own experience. I have to say you know, certainly as a black woman coming from a, you know, a particular neighborhood and the south will be learned something very, very early on about the importance of not only developing what we skills we have for ourselves, but, but extending those to those around us. So I love your, your reflections about how just ki moments of kindness and certainly for me, kindness, sharing those things and then gratitude. In addition to just being more clear about my values and what I wanna do in the world, all of these different, we might call inputs to the inner work seems so important to both our own wellbeing and then to our capacity to extend as you're so beautifully describing into a sense of connectedness and deeper relationship with those around us. So Christine, I'd love to have you speak a little bit more about just the practice of inner work. What's the PR what are the practices like for you? What are some of the ways that you stay recharged in the work? If you could just share a little bit about what, what your journey has been with practicing inner work?

Speaker 1 (09:33):

Sure, sure. I I tend to aim for a very low bar with this. My favorite inner work practice is actually just taking breaks throughout the day, real screen free breaks, where we can just let our minds wander a little bit. It's kind of like the opposite of mindfulness in a way, you know, we breaks are of course a form of, of rest and mountains of research. Show us that rest is a really critical determinant of whether or not a person is able to fulfill their potential breaks. Really help us focus when we're trying to work when we're not in a break. And we know from research that people who take a break every 90 minutes report about 30% better focus than people who don't take any breaks or, or people who take just one break during the day. So I, I often wonder how many of us are among those that take zero breaks during the day breaks also make us more creative and lead to greater innovation.

Speaker 1 (10:30):

People who take those breaks every 90 minutes are about 50% more creative. So even though taking breaks can often make us feel lazy. The truth is that our brains really do work differently and better when we take breaks. So check out these brain scans from Microsoft's human factors lab, they used EEG caps to measure brainwave activity associated with stress and meeting participants. So the top row are folks who just rolled from one video meeting to the next. And what we can see is that the stress really builds up in those who are deprived of breaks, an increase that is depicted here in the illustration, by the shift from hot colors or shift to hot colors like yellows and oranges and reds, but the bottom row are the brains of those who took 10 minute breaks between their meetings. So you can see that their brains remained relatively cool visualized here in blues and greens.

Speaker 1 (11:34):

So here at BetterUp, we have two practices for taking breaks. The first is better at breaks each week. We have three company wide, 30 minute blocks of time where there are absolutely no meetings. And when we, we really work hard to be off our screens. And then the second thing that we try and do is we try and take micro breaks of five or 10 minutes each throughout the day in between every single meeting. So much like the people in the Microsoft study that I just showed you. So we have this practice of having 25 minute meetings instead of 30 minutes or 50 minute meetings instead of 60, for example. So that P people have a chance to take a micro break. We're just trying to keep our brains cool here.

Speaker 3 (12:22):

Absolutely. Wow. I love the way you're describing these very kind of portable and, and, you know, accessible ways of just experiencing the benefits of taking these sorts of breaks. And I can readily see how we're any position of leadership. If we're in a position of ha having, being able to facilitate a gathering, we might actually incorporate a little bit more of this sort of sort of break practice into what we do. I'm wondering if you could share a little bit about you know, how to increase our motivation or our intentionality about doing this work because it all the research that I've seen and certainly in my own experience, it's so important to prioritize, to be specific. <Laugh> about the agreement we make with ourselves and the things we're gonna do specifically to follow through through, on doing this work. But on the other hand, for some of us, we know how busy we all are. We know what's going on in the world today. It can seem a little bit selfish to actually decide, yes, I'm going to, you know, make it a priority to pause, to give myself a little bit of support along the way throughout my day. So can you share a little bit more about, you know, this idea that maybe the inner work is selfish and why? Cuz I don't think we think it is why it isn't.

Speaker 1 (13:45):

Yeah, I know. I, I, I actually, I'm so glad you brought it up because I think a lot of people have some, you know, negative feelings when they take time for themselves because they do think it selfish or that they're being lazy by taking a break, for example. So I don't want anybody to be confused. Inner work is not selfish. Selfishness is an anxious focus on the self selfish people tend to really pursue extrinsic goals, such as preserving their youthful beauty or cultivating an image of themselves on social media. They're they often hunger for more money or power and approval from others. They're often willing to pursue things at the expense of other people or even at the expense of their own integrity. So that, that sort of selfish focus that sort of actual selfishness is really linked to stress, anxiety, depression, health problems, such as heart disease.

Speaker 1 (14:39):

So, you know, when we are talking about inner work, we are definitely not recommending selfishness here. And I just think it's a really important distinction for us all to be really clear about in our own minds. You know, I do think that in our work is a form of self care and that self care is a really, it's really important for people who wanna make the world a better place. Yeah, absolutely. In other words, when we under invest in our bodies or our minds or our spirits, we tend to a really damage our most essential tools for leading our most impactful lives.

Speaker 3 (15:18):

It's not selfish. In other words, it's not some other self form of narcissism. It's about self nourishment for in my view, work in the world, putting that oxygen mask on ourselves first, right. And, and being able to really be a resource for others. Sean, what are your thoughts about this, this part of the, the challenge that we have?

Speaker 2 (15:39):

Well, Rhonda, I know that you write about this where I feel like that the inner work we're describing here is not a substitute for the outer work. We've gotta change the systems. There are causing inequality and discrimination. I think the inner work is the fuel that allows us to be able to achieve that at our highest possible levels. And I think we've become afraid of that inner work we've been, I think we've become afraid of happiness. We're afraid of joy and peace within our lives. It's C created something. We call happiness anxiety, happiness anxiety either is when people put the breaks mentally on their levels of, cause I know it could crash down at any moment, but what I've seen so much more, especially in the midst of the pandemic and all the challenges we're experiencing in the world is we feel guilty, feeling happy when we know that other people are suffering, not only are other people suffering, but it also sounds like the things that we're describing, mindfulness and gratitude and a two minute positive email sound poultry in the midst of a P pandemic poultry in the face of racism.

Speaker 2 (16:36):

But when we do research, what we find is that these small things have huge implications. So we started working actually with the hospital systems. I was working with Genesis health systems out in Iowa and they wanted to have the whole organization do basically inner work. They wanted them to have them do positive psychology interventions. And some of the leaders there said it would be so tone deaf for us to talk about happiness and inner work right now we're having to let good people go. We're in the midst of a global pandemic. We're in the midst of all these challenges. Once we get to a good place, then we can start talking about happiness and inner work and mindfulness. But other leaders are said, if we're not focusing on these things, we're only focusing on the things that are outside of our control and only focused on the negative.

Speaker 2 (17:19):

So what we got to do, which was a researcher's dream is we got to go department by department inside the same organization to see what happens when people lean into inner work versus when they try to hunker down and get through this period. And what we found is with the hunker down approach, six weeks later, their burnout rates had skyrocketed. But with each of the groups we touched with inner work with that positive psychology intervention, it turns out within a six week period of time, their burnout rates dropped in half of what they were pre pandemic and the patient safety rose dramatically. When we got that data, we got to the entire hospital system and in the end they now have top 1% patient safety in the nation. The reason I'm mentioning this is something that sounded selfish was actually not only self care for those people that were providing help in the midst of a pandemic, but it actually imp root the outcomes for the society that needed them so dramatically. So I, what I'm hopeful for is that people start to realize that this inner work actually allows us to become more compassionate. There is a fantastic study that came out that said that when people are more positive and happier, it turns out they don't become complacent, their compassion levels and outro TISM levels rise dramatic. So if we wanna make a positive impact upon this world, we have to balance our outer work with fueling ourselves with that inner work as well.

Speaker 3 (18:37):

Yeah, absolutely. I love it. That you're talking about this particular intersection between the inner work and the work that we all, so many of us feel compelled to the world right now to try to do what we can to make things just a little bit better for ourselves, but not only for ourselves. And absolutely thank you so much, Sean, for mentioning the work that I do. The book that I wrote, the inner work of racial justice, healing ourselves and transforming our communities through mindfulness is really motivated, but I, my own journey because the link between inner work and social justice and equity is not obvious. And yet research is showing that these practices actually do benefit not only ourselves, but can support us and work with the difficult issues we face right now around social identity based bias, around discrimination, around inequality in the world.

Speaker 3 (19:41):

For example, there are just some early studies that are showing how mindfulness can minimize the harm that comes from being targets of stereotypes. We know that the threat of stereotypes can actually negatively impact our performance in the world, but mindfulness has been shown to actually provide a kind of a buffer to enable more effective performance. Notwithstanding the stereotypes that might be around us. On the other hand, the research is showing that in addition to automatic reactivity and therefore helping minimize bias itself, meditation may assist us in behaving in ways that reflect less discriminatory action. And so while there's definitely a need for more research around this, it's clear that meditation and the inner work can assist us in actually making good on our values and our intentions in regards to greater equity and justice in the world. So Christine, I wanna toss it to you and ask, how is it that you act on these good intentions? How do you make sure that you stay engaged in these practices, even when we might fall off the wagon or find ourselves pressed for time? What are some of the specific things you do to keep going?

Speaker 1 (21:04):

Yeah, you're definitely onto something. I think regularity makes, makes a really big difference. And once you've identified a form of inner work, that really feels right to you. I think the next step is to really start thinking about how to make it a habit rather than something you do once in a blue moon. Right? So for example, taking five minutes for journaling or gratitude practice or meditation or prayer every morning is gonna be a way better way to invest your time than spending an hour today, doing it, although you could definitely spend an hour today or more doing those things, but then not doing it again for a month. You know, our outcomes, how we feel, what we accomplish are usually lagging of our habits, not individual inspired acts. So what we do repeatedly tends to really add up for us. So start by thinking about small acts of inner work that you could do every day, what could become a habit for you and, you know, the next thing which can be really hard <laugh> is to start small.

Speaker 1 (22:10):

You know, even though I have long coached people in effective methods to form inner work habits, I have at times refused to follow my own best advice just because I like to go big. I don't like to necessarily start small. So when I, for example started meditating, you know, research shows that meditation can boost wellbeing and reduce stress. And I was well aware of this. So I made a goal to sit and meditate twice a day, every day for 25 minutes. And I downloaded an app to guide me through my meditations and I bought a special cushion to sit on, you know, I was, I, I really tend to go big, but then, you know, I actually only stuck to my schedule for a few days and I only stuck to it for a few days, even though I really felt like the importance of meditation and the good health benefits that it was gonna bring.

Speaker 1 (23:05):

Had never been more bracingly clear to me, you know, I believed in it, but I also, I felt too busy to meditate. And so I didn't do it. So th this is what we're trying to avoid here because, you know, it turns out that our ability to follow through on our best intentions, doesn't actually depend on our understanding of the benefits or the science of a particular behavior, or even the strength of our willpower. I actually think it depends on our willingness to, to actually just be bad at our desired behavior. The truth is that I stopped meditating cuz I wasn't willing to be bad at it. So the bad news for all of you over achievers out there is that we really do have to be willing to start small, to be bad at our new good habits. You know, being good requires that our effort and our motivation be in proportion to each other and the harder something is for, for us to do the more motivation we need to do that thing.

Speaker 1 (24:04):

So, you know, as you might have noticed, we can't always muster motivation on command. And so, you know, whether we like it or not, motivation comes and motivation tends to go. And when that motivation, WANs, we, human beings are gonna do the easiest thing, which is often to just not do the practice that we really feel strongly about doing so. So what we can all do right now is to ask ourselves, you know, how can we strip this thing that we've been meaning to do down or that we really intend to do down into something so easy that you could do it every day with barely a thought, right? It might be doing a single yoga pose or going for a one minute walk. You know, you can can expand this over time, but you kind of just wanna have a better than nothing behavior that you can do even when you're stressed and even when you're tired and even when nothing is going as planned. So start there and then build slowly once you've gotten into an easy routine. So Rhonda and Sean, do you wanna share an example of how you've created an inner work habit and like what the small little thing is that our viewers can do? Yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:20):

Yeah. I, one of the things that I do is to start I have a habit of starting my meditation with a clarification of my intentions. So even if it's just a few seconds of a remembering and reminding why I do this and again, the research and my own personal experience confirms that especially if we're wanting to practice in ways that been, if at others, we bring that into our clear awareness as a part of the practice and remind ourselves why we are doing what we're doing. And then another kind of quick assist for me is I have my meditation cushion and supports for it set up. And I have it set up and place where I know I'm gonna do some regular thing every day. For example, take a shower. I have it, not in the shower, but near the shower. So I know that I can link my practice to this sort of commitment I have to cleansing and clarifying. And I, you know, I'm gonna take that shower every day. I'm gonna meditate be for, or, or after if it feels right. Every day as well, Sean, what comes up for you?

Speaker 2 (26:35):

<Laugh> I love that. I, I love listening to both of you because I feel like I need, I need more me motivation to get some of these habits to stick. I feel like in order for inner work to work for me, I needed other people. So when I think about the habits that I do, they're all including other people. You know, when I put my son and daughter to sleep at night, I do three gratitudes each with them, as I say, a prayer with each one of them as I'm putting them to sleep. But I know that if I leave the room and you know, I have a, I've done it, they call me right back into the room, right. Or at night after we brush our teeth, my wife and I send a text of our favorite moments of the day. Right. I wouldn't do that if it wasn't from the fact that I know she's gonna text before I do.

Speaker 2 (27:14):

So I try to beat her to it. Right. but you know, that habit I mentioned about from LinkedIn where we write a two minute pause, email praising at other people, I've shifted that in the midst of the pandemic too, instead of just praising somebody, just reaching out to someone in the midst of everything, that's going on, something as simple, like just last night I texted my niece and said, I know you had a big B ball game. I hope it went well. Or I texted one of my friends a couple days ago and said, I know you had a big meeting, how to go because there's this awesome study that I think aligns with. We've been saying here today, which is these researchers out in Virginia found, if you look at a hill that you have to climb in front of you, if you look at that hill by yourself, it looks 20 to 30% steeper to climb when you're alone, compared to when you're standing next to someone who's gonna climb the hill with you. What I love about this is that I think we need other people to motivate us to do you that inner work, but also what motivates our inner work is the fact that it impacts and improves the lives of other people. So for me, that those three habits of trying to really create gratitude with other people and connect with them helps change the geometry of the challenges in front of us.

Speaker 1 (28:20):

That is so awesome. I love those boats so much. Thank you so much Ronna and Sean for being here, it's been really wonderful to be here with you today. I think that these little, little bits of inner work that we've been talking about today, a one minute practice that requires little time and effort, won't often actually feel like work. You won't feel busy and important while you're doing it, and you might even feel little guilty or self-indulgent, but sticking with a life of busyness and unrelenting, outer work, we all know will break our heart slowly. So, you know, true happiness and fulfillment. It turns out are not found in the unyielding pursuit of an impossible, ideal to develop our multiple talents and to live life to the fullest, to reach more of our potential. We must invest in ourselves and in the people around us, in our habits, in our growth, in our gratitude. And so for this reason, I think inner work is some of the most important work we will do today and this week, this month, this year. So thank you so much for joining us in this conversation. I hope that you're sticking around for one of the next two sessions. You can join peak performance strategist, aunt Damari and myself for a studio workshop about finding peace in the chaos or deep dive into coaching as a part of inner work with Dr. Ja Jimenez and coach comedian Sharine, Thor, see you there and happy inner work day.

Speaker 1 (00:02):

Hello, and welcome. Thank you so much for joining us. I'm Dr. Justine de Jimenez, and it is my absolute pleasure to kick off this next session during our very first inner Workday. First a little bit about me for those who may not know I'm a licensed and full psychologist. I'm an award-winning author board certified leadership coach. And my purpose is really to and empower others through science, to live their lives with greater authenticity and vitality. I'm also, BetterUp vice president of coach innovation. And in fact, I'm here with one of our spectacular BetterUp coaches today. I'm joined by the wonderful Thor. She's a coach, she's a bestselling author. She's also a former comedian and she knows for hand and the power of committing to inner work. So Sharine, thank you so much for joining me. I'm so happy you're here.

Speaker 2 (00:48):

Well, thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Speaker 1 (00:51):

I wanted to start off by just talking a little tiny bit about framing up the science behind inner work in today's world. It's easy to become detached from ourselves or disconnected from ourselves when just trying to keep up with simple living inner work, I believe can be this really powerful gateway to returning to ourselves with thoughtfulness and intention. And in fact, just to get a little dorky on the science side, according to attention restoration theory, when you're an environment with lower levels of sensory input, your brain can actually recover cognitive abilities, which is really important. Yes, you, you can overtrain your brain. And so when you slow down to engage in moments of self-reflection, you're actually using a different part of your brain, it's called the a default mode network. Normally like right now, when I'm talking to you all, I'm using the executive attention network.

Speaker 1 (01:38):

But when we turn on our default mode network, we can give our brain a chance to tap into creating connections, increased clarity and deeper self-awareness. And so today I am happy to turn it over to our expert coach Sharine, to tell us a little bit more about how you can tune into your unique needs circumstances, life factors, to design a great inner work experience. So Sharine, I'm gonna put you in the hot seat and I'm gonna stop talking. And I was wanted to start by asking you, can you share how coaching can be a useful mechanism to design inner work practices that speaks to one's unique circumstances, personalities, mental state, et cetera.

Speaker 2 (02:20):

Yes, definitely. Oh my gosh. Such juicy information. I love you set it up like that because it makes so much sense. One of the things I'm always talking to my members about is sort of taking a time out, right? Like personally, I took a sabbatical sabbatical off of social media last summer. So I think what I was doing was exactly what you're describing, right? Like just taking a beat, right. Less sensory information so that I could and calm down. And what I didn't know was that clearly I was using a different part of my brain <laugh> now I know. Thank you for that. Yeah, I think coaching is an incredible space to do inner work. And I think the reason for that is that it's like the one sort of neutral territory in your life. You know, you have a boss who's holding space for your work commitments.

Speaker 2 (03:06):

You have some form of family that is holding space for your familial commitments. If you care about health, you might have a personal trainer that's holding space for your physical health. Right. And what a coach does is, is a really hold space for your inner world so that you can do that reflection so that you can take a time out so that you can process everything that's going on. It's crazy how much sometimes when I'm listening to members, I just feel like they're doing the work for me. <Laugh> and just effortless. Not because I'm such an incredible coach, but because I am holding the space for their wellbeing. And so they inevitably are kind of going there on their own. They're inevitably reflecting about how they've grown. And so I just feel like really coaching is just a special, neutral, unbiased space where people get to work out what's going on internally. So perfect for,

Speaker 1 (04:02):

Ah, such a beautiful description of coaching. It really is, you know, how many times in our day, or even our week, do we get a space where someone is just there for us, where we get to, and it's totally neutral, like you said, and it's there to be a support and you can say whatever you want and feel free to talk about things that may be difficult or hard to talk about with other people that is so freeing and important to unpack. So yeah. I love the point that you made about how you, your members show up for you too, that it it's a doorway kind of totally

Speaker 2 (04:37):

Approach too. And I do think, right, like we have a two do list. We have things in our external world pulling from us often. And so when you do have that minute to take a beat with your coach, you're inevitably going inward on accident, right. Like, just because that's, that's the purpose of the session. So yeah. I feel like coaching's just a really easy way to take the time for your insights. <Laugh>

Speaker 1 (05:01):

Yeah. Yeah. It's that natural conduit. And you get that sounding board from another person as well. My next question for you is, you know, just about, you know, what I talked about, how it's not a one size fits all approach that everyone kind of has unique needs. Can you, can you, I know this is gonna be tough, but can you give us three main tips on how to design an inner work practice that that is unique to each person mm-hmm

Speaker 2 (05:29):

<Affirmative> yeah, definitely. I think number one, always number one would be quiet, the noise. So for some people that's gonna be, I'm just gonna journal for some people that's gonna be, I'm gonna take a walk in nature for some people that's gonna be, I'm gonna have a conversation with my coach, right? So just quiet the noise in whatever way you can. For me, that was taking that summer sabbatical off social media so that mm-hmm <affirmative> idea of quieting, the noise can be nuanced. So for those who are listening, I want you to just think about like, wow, what would really make you feel like you got more space, time and less noise, whatever that is, do that. That's number one. And honestly, number two is really simple and profound, but I would just say, listen to whatever comes through. You know, there's been moments for some of my clients and members where they're doing morning pages, cuz it's just something we talked about that would support their wellbeing.

Speaker 2 (06:21):

And they wrote something that they didn't even know was true. They didn't even know. They thought that before and it just creates a deeper level of awareness of what's going on in their inner world. And then I would say number three is seriously just take action and execute on what you hear, right? Like really all honor the soul really honor what it is that your heart desires, cuz that is what ends up. Oftentimes just getting unheard and unseen and sort of trampled in our very productive and super hyper effective world. So when you hear your heart say a little, some, some <laugh>, you've gotta listen, <laugh>

Speaker 1 (06:57):

It's that mismatch right between what our values stand for and how we're living. And that mismatch can, can really be an erosion on the human soul. And we're not living in line with our truth or our values or a dignity or our spirit that can, that can erode over time if we're a misaligned. But it's so easy. Like you said, there's just this cacophony of noise and inputs coming in constantly. So how can we hear our own needs and inner voice if we're not making space to slow down, to turn down that volume and to turn up our inner voice and needs and want. So I love those three. Can you say them again? It's yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:39):

Number one. So first quiet the

Speaker 1 (07:40):

Noise, quiet. The noise. What that looks like for you.

Speaker 2 (07:43):

Mm-Hmm <affirmative> second. Just listen and then third take action. So simple, but we'll literally change your life, you know, so it's crazy cuz we're just talking about inner work, but we're also sort of talking about living your life intentionally, right? Like how do you live your <affirmative> intentionally if you're not taking the time to hear what your heart and soul wants, so yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:04):

Yeah. Good. And when we live in line with our values on the flip side, there's so much positive outcomes as well. And so I would love to hear about, you know, a coaching story since you've coached. So many of our are better up members and just people in general about practices you've noticed that were really impactful where it actually lined up more with the soul and created a lot of great momentum and mm-hmm <affirmative> engagement in life. Like the flip side of that erosion, right. Is something really beautiful. So if you have any stories please share. Cause I, I just think the stories really capture the power of coaching and the power of inner work.

Speaker 2 (08:45):

Yeah, definitely. I feel like right now sort of a pattern I'm seeing with all my members is that taking a break and traveling is really resetting their

Speaker 1 (08:58):

Mental palette. Yeah. It's making that shift and you know, something I've seen too for folks who can't go on vacation is just doing these micro moments of inner work too, like on a consistent basis. So if you can't go on vacation, what can you do on a day to day basis? Cause little by little, little also come a lot. I think if

Speaker 2 (09:15):

It is more of like a micro practice and you're trying to spend time every day, I would say one of two things, whatever, actually, you know, resonates more one would be a walk in nature. So definitely getting outside outdoors if possible. And then two would be morning pages. I find that morning pages are a very interest sting time where it's like, you just woke up. The world has not inundated you yet. Right? You're not looking at your phone. You're taking time with yourself, by yourself for yourself. And it's really just like fill the page. You write for five minutes. It doesn't even matter what comes out. And so I do feel like sometimes that is a way to just be with yourself, see what is up, see what's on your mind. And also you get to kind of empty your mind before the day even starts. You almost feel a little bit fresh and a little bit ready to

Speaker 1 (10:04):

Go after. Yeah. Yeah. And I love the name morning pages. I haven't heard of that name before. So I love that practice. And I could see how that's so important to go into the day refresh because you're all this mental energy, otherwise we're carrying it around with us throughout the day. Things that we're not even realizing maybe that are hold that we're holding. And so we're able to write it down kind of make sense of it or not just get it out <laugh> and then not carry that with us the rest of the day.

Speaker 2 (10:32):

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:34):

That's beautiful. <Affirmative> any other tips or thoughts about inner work or that you do personally that you, that you find powerful or impactful or if you want, I would love to hear more about the nature piece, cuz I'm a big fan of nature as well, and there's so much research to back it up. 

Speaker 2 (10:54):

Ooh, you'll have to share geek out with me.

Speaker 1 (10:58):

<Laugh> well, I will I'll jump in just for a second, but from an evolutionary time perspective as human beings, we spent 99.9% of our time in nature which is wild. So we've been wired evolutionarily speaking to find restoration and recovery in nature. So, but we are so removed from nature in our day to day world, especially in urban settings and you know, when's the last time we looked up at the moon and the stars or watched the sunset or put our feet in the grass. And, and what they found is that even just 20 minutes in nature, say not using your phone and taking pictures of the nature <laugh> right. But smelling it looking at it, feeling the wind can actually reduce your cortisol levels substantially. Wow. And cortisol is a stress hormone just by being with nature and it's using your senses. So sight smell, touch, taste. If it's safe, obviously <laugh>, you don't want you to a phone around eating random things, but it can be very, very powerful. And so that's something I try to do every, every is get my, I call it my nature fix. And it it's truly powerful. It's something like I literally prescribed to my, my clients as well. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (12:25):

That is so cool. Well thank you for that. My goodness. I feel like I need to spend more time with you. I might get smarter just by

Speaker 1 (12:36):

Well, I, so I have another question for you. Do you have like a quote or a challenge for folks who are out there watching right now that could leave them inspired or excited to spend some time designing it in their Workday? So if you got, if they got a whole day to, to, to go inward, what, what would you say to them? Or how would you

Speaker 2 (13:00):

Inspire? You know, to be honest, I am a fan of following your irrational impulses. I will honestly say some of the most irrational impulses I've ever had that I honored because they wouldn't go well. And they were nagging at me, have all led me closer to my purpose, to what I was meant to do right to that life giving energy. So the first time I ever did it, I was at a personal development seminar and they had you set a goal. And at this seminar I realized, oh, I'm really deferring all my life's choices to sort of please my pay and make them happy. As the daughter of immigrants, I was expected to be a doctor, lawyer, an engineer <laugh> and I decided to be a mega disappointment and quit a master's degree to start doing stand up comedy. And so that was my first sort of like irrational impulse that I honored.

Speaker 2 (13:52):

And of course people love hearing about comedy and it's totally, and it was this exciting adventure, but the truth is comedy led me to coaching. I didn't expect that it was really more, it wasn't about the comedy. It was about me learning to pump the muscle of trusting my own intuition. Even if it made no sense, you know, it was me learning to honor the sort of cadence and path of my soul, even if it didn't align with my mom's approval. And so comedy served as like the adventure necessary to put me on path mm-hmm <affirmative> I ended up, you know, I've been coaching for 15 years and it's been an incredible experience and I'll probably never stop coaching. Like I don't see myself ever retiring cuz I love to help people grow and transform and create a safe space for them to become who they authentically already are.

Speaker 2 (14:38):

But sometimes the noise, you know, gets in the way. And I really wouldn't have become a coach if it wasn't for becoming a comedian first. And so I think everyone out there listening right now probably has some irrational impulse that they talk themselves out of. Right? Like, oh, I shouldn't do that. It wouldn't make sense. Or why would I do that hobby? It wouldn't make me any money. And, and that's fine, I get that. But sometimes you do things because you're inspired to do them. And sometimes you do things because they give you energy and they make you feel excited about life. And so I think that's another way to sort of reverse burnout, right. Is just doing things that you're excited about doing things that give you life and that will nurture your inner world in a way that you would never imagine, just go do something crazy. That's my challenge to the people. <Laugh>

Speaker 1 (15:28):

And how can they go about thinking about that? What, what are some ways they can, they can tune in to figuring out what are those things that fill them?

Speaker 2 (15:38):

I mean, I think really just thinking about like, what is that sort of naughty thing that you've been wanting to do that you keep talking yourself out of? Everybody has one, whatever that is, write it down and then just really make a plan to go do it, you know? And that's it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:00):

So leaning into the things that fill you that you've been maybe putting off, but that would make you feel like you come alive. I love that so much and something I I do with my clients is have them look back at those times in their, our lives where they felt so aligned with themselves, where they felt so fulfilled. And I go, what were the ingredients there? What was that contributing to that? How do we create that again for you? Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and sometimes it takes a little bit of like that reflection, right? To, to look back in order to look for forward and kind of visualize what would a life that really makes me come alive and flourish look like. And in psychology we call that perspective like really looking forward and looking into the future and, and visualizing what could that look like?

Speaker 1 (16:49):

And that can make it also less scary because we've kind of taken away the anxiety of, we have a clear vision versus like, I'm just gonna take a leap and the, the net will appear. Sometimes that perspective can also help build up that courage to go, oh, this is possible. But it takes that inner work time to reflect on what is that ideal space for me. And that takes a lot of, sometimes some work to design out what, what that will look like. So again, lots of different options for, for everyone. And so that's where I think coaching is so unique and that a coach can really be there to help guide you to find the right practice for you. Cuz someone else may be like, I don't, I don't wanna go in nature. I'm not, that's not my thing. Someone else may be like, I don't wanna think about the future as scary thing.

Speaker 1 (17:35):

You know? So it's about finding the, the stuff that's gonna allow you to ultimately go inward and connect with mm-hmm <affirmative> like you were saying Sharine, your true self and your values and living with that match and alignment. So I know we are almost out of time, but I wanted to ask you if there's anything else that you wanna say to our audience to, to get them excited about going inward. Cause let's, mm-hmm, <affirmative>, let's face it going into the internal landscape can be a little intimidating and scary if we haven't done it. I mean, we're coaches. We love it. But what about for people who like, eh, that sounds scary. Good. I don't wanna sit with my thoughts <laugh> yeah. What, what can you say to them?

Speaker 2 (18:15):

That is such a good question, actually. Such a good point. That it doesn't sound exciting to everybody. No,

Speaker 1 (18:22):

We're biased. <Laugh>

Speaker 2 (18:23):

Right. I'm like you wouldn't love that. It's amazing. You know, I feel like what I would say is that you really won't find true peace of mind unless you're willing to go inward. You might create a life that looks good on the outside to the outside. But if you want true fulfillment, if you want that values aligned life, if you want to feel happy, then you just need to spend some time with your own self to learn who you really are, right? Like who you truly are, what you truly desire, what you need to actually feel fulfilled. Happy.

Speaker 1 (19:09):

Sure. Thank you. You so much for spending time with us today. It is always a pleasure chatting with you. Thank you for all the beautiful work you do with our members to help them do inner work to our audience. Thank you so much for joining us as well. I hope this conversation sparks some ideas to help you approach inner work and hear your own truth.

Speaker 1 (00:05):

Hello everyone. I am Dr. Jain de Jimenez. I am betters vice president for coach innovation, and I have the pleasure of leading our next inner Workday session. For me, inner work is putting lessons I've learned through years of study in positive psychology, neuroscience, motivational psychology health behavior, change into practice and to grow as a human being. First and foremost, for me personally, inner work is a vital practice. It's an imperative practice. It's not just a nice to have. It's something I don't take lightly. It has provided me the opportunity to slow down, to clarify my thinking, to center my soul and feel more steady while the world of work and life continues to evolve and spin around us. And so to help me talk about the power of inner work and how to best approach designing an inner work experience for yourself and how coaching can help with inner work, I have with me a very talented, better up coach with a tremendous experience in helping leaders. I identify and follow transformational inner work practices, and that is the one and only Sean Meredith. Sean is a hands on coach with experience in both individual and team dynamics. And I am absolutely thrilled to have him join us today to share his perspective on inner work. Sean, thank you so much for being here today with us.

Speaker 2 (01:26):

Absolutely. I I'm so excited to be here. This is happens to be one of my favorite topics.

Speaker 1 (01:31):

<Laugh> yes <laugh>. So, Sean, I, I wanna start off by asking you about coaching because coaching is such a big part of what we do at BetterUp and it's so tied to inner work. So let's start off by this question. Can you share how coaching can be a useful mechanism just to design inner work practices that really are personalized to the individual that speak to their unique circumstances, their unique personality, their unique mental state? Yeah

Speaker 2 (02:00):

A absolutely. I mean, first off, just admitting that I'm biased in this, because I think that that coaching, I think coaching is the, a mechanism that when we look at the services that are out there both professionally and personally for helping and enriching people's experience, getting people past things, I think coaching is really the only one that Lao allows that space to be driven by the individual, by the person across the coaching table that is coaches, you know, we're really tr trained not to own the agenda. We're not, we're, we're trained not to influence that in a way. We, we facilitate a process of questioning and discovery almost like guiding a person into themselves where it's gonna help them explore that space in a psychologically safe way and a confidential way in a way that's not impacted by us a having any dual rules in their life. And, and I think that's really, really powerful. And I, and I think in that sense, coaching is just the tool for the job. I think that when I reflect on just my own coaching, working virtually all over the world, I'm always surprised at how the process I run can translate across cultures. It can translate across age groups and dynamics and job levels and, and, and focuses of whatever the coach is bringing to the coaching session because that process the same,

Speaker 1 (03:19):

So beautifully said, Sean, and obviously I'm biased too, cuz I think coaching is such a great way to get started on inner work. Right. as coaches, one of the requirements and training is to do our own inner landscape work, to go inward and make sure to understand what we're bringing to the table as coaches. So it's almost like having an tour guide to your inner world that can take you in an effective and way to guide through that inner work process, which can be new or intimidating or, or kind of scary to do it alone. And, and to have that, like you said, Sean, that psychological safety where you're safe to take interpersonal risks of candor and be really vulnerable and transparent with someone who just has your best interest in mind can go such a long way in allowing you to take that risk of kind of going a little bit deeper than maybe you have in the past. So, so well said <laugh>

Speaker 2 (04:14):

Yeah, and I I'm even thinking in there that we mentioned the safety, but there's also the efficiency of it. Yeah. But if you're doing with a, with a coach and a trained professional, you're gonna get through that much faster. You're gonna get through that process more quickly.

Speaker 1 (04:27):

Yeah. You get that sounding board, that feedback, someone else to bounce ideas off. Who's also trained in, in the art. Yes. <Laugh> of doing inner work. Yes, absolutely. So speaking of ex expert guidance, I am gonna ask you can you give us Sean's three expert tips on how to design an inner work practice that is kind of personalized for, for each person that that's interested in trying this practice out on a consistent basis?

Speaker 2 (04:57):

Absolutely. I think when I, when I reflect on that question, I, as a, as a coach, I'm always thinking kind of categories, processes, you know, as, as I'm coaching someone in front of me. And for me, I kind of go down this three tier assessment almost number one. I think we tend to be in situations in life where we're either in a, a surviving mode or a thriving mode. I hear other terms for this. Some people might say reactive proactive. Some people might say a defensive posture or an offensive posture. And I like surviving and thriving cuz I bring, it brings in the reality that the truth is sometimes we, we gotta survive. You know, we gotta pay that bill. We gotta deal with this medical issue. We gotta deal with this family issue. Jobs, uncertainty, things of this nature. If the last few years hasn't just been an exercise in surviving for everyone.

Speaker 2 (05:51):

And I think that is not the space of inner work. So that space as coaches, we're helping people navigate it, to get out of it, to build the baseline back. There's other services that help people prove that baseline. So the second one thriving is really the space that you want to be in. You want to get yourself into this thriving space and there's characteristics that you can tell. You can kind of notice. One of those is in a thriving space. This is gonna sound a little weird, but in a thriving space, there's usually low clarity and low motivation in a surviving space. We have high clarity and high motivation. I wanna pass that test. I want to deal with this issue. I want this strange thing on my body gone. And the thriving space, we often get a little lost. And I think about this times where, where you find a little extra money or something and you don't know what to do with it, or you find a little extra time you're freed up. You're one of your days clear up and you just kind of, oh, okay, well what do I do now? And sometimes we, we just rest or we just I, I don't know. We just, we just Whit it away. So first off, if we could just heighten our, our mind around which mode am I in, what am I facing right now? I think that's a great

Speaker 1 (07:01):

First step. I love that first step because also throughout our day we can be in different modes, right? Maybe there's a high stress event in our day. And then maybe we're in this more thriving space. And those are the times to take advantage of the opportunity to, to kind of do that proactive work. Is that right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:17):

Yeah, absolutely. And for the, for the second step, I love values work. There are so many great exercises on values work. Most of them are gonna be some version of a list. You're gonna have a list of words and you're gonna look at these words and you're gonna start narrowing and compartmentalizing and you know, putting that doll inside the doll. And you want to come down to, to, I help clients come down to three, maybe five at the most value words mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I want them to really find those things that resonate, not the values they think they should have, not the values that other people told them they should have, but really what are those values? What resonates with them and have that as a compass. So if you have those values, what you can do is in these thriving times is you can use that as a guide.

Speaker 2 (08:02):

Me, one of my values is adventure and it was funny when I first did that. Cause I'm, that's such a weird marketing word adventure, but I realized that if I am somewhere that I'm lost in low on food and like seeing new things, I get really excited and I just do great in those spaces. So, you know, I wander off on act packing trips and things. So that, that, that value compass can really help you in those moments. And like you said, even if it's a micro moment, I get a free half hour mm-hmm <affirmative> what would access one of my values right now? What could I read? What could I engage in? What could I do? Or if it's a vacation, what vacation might really access my value? What might really play that up? And so that second step is you're gonna have that, that compass or that guide.

Speaker 1 (08:47):

That's beautiful. I'm such a proponent of values, like just having them. And I, I put, I tell people to put 'em like on your, you know, mirror, when you brush your teeth in the morning everywhere, just reminding yourself of your values. Cuz sometimes we can name like five celebrities faster than we can name our top five values. And it shouldn't be that way. We should be able to name our top five values off the top of our head. But unfortunately, you know, a lot of times we haven't made the time to do that. And that's part of the inner work process too. And then finding those times to really tune into that value. And then what would you say is your third, third tip?

Speaker 2 (09:20):

I think the third tip you know, and I love that the value is that what it makes me think of when you look at a lot of like old, even like European cultures, we see those weird shields that had like truth justice and like a lion or something. <Laugh> think that was early values work. You know, that it was, what does this, you know, family, corporations stand for and futile systems, there are more corporations, but you know, what does this stand for? What do we, what do we hold ourselves up to? Yeah. So I think the, I think the third step, I always love how we're not, we're just like rediscovering the stuff humans have done forever. You know, we find this mm-hmm

Speaker 1 (09:51):

Oh, oh yeah. Ancient, ancient wisdom.

Speaker 2 (09:56):

But so I think the third step is understanding that that piece. I said that the, the thriving side and the value side is not gonna have a lot of intrinsic motivation. You're gonna get lost a lot. So ideally with a coach or a trusted ally or someone you wanna find a structure, you wanna find a scaffolding thing. That's gonna hold you accountable something that's gonna pull you into that future. That might be routines around health or fitness or meditation or spiritual practices or just commitments. A group of friends and I from high school, once a year, we go on a backpacking trip eight days or so in the wilderness. And just that, that, that grounding of that, we all know we're doing it. We gotta carve it out of our life cuz we're accountable to each other. And we're just so happy every time we do it. So, so the, the third thing is really just putting into some kind of routine, some kind of structure that's gonna be there when you don't have motivation or drive or interest, that's gonna hold you accountable.

Speaker 1 (10:53):

Oh, I love that third one. It reminds me of the concept of habit stacking, you know, great habits happen when you stack it onto an already set behavior. So every time I brush, so something I practice for my inner work is gratitude. So every time I brush my teeth, I've decided I will think of things I'm grateful for. And so it's a triggering response right there. And or even every time I come home and put my keys in my key jar on my entryway, I, you know, I chop and breathe and go, what am I feeling right now? Just those little tiny habits. And then you can do the annual ones like your backpacking trip. Those are so beautiful and making it a regular process. Cause I don't know Sean, if you agree, but I, I really believe that inner work needs to be done on a consistent and persistent basis to really get comfortable with that landscape. It's not a place you just wanna visit once in a, all you, you, you wanna kind of hang out there and, and feel comfortable more and more of being with yourself and, and knowing yourself and just like a good friend. You gotta spend time to get to know that friend. So you need to spend time getting to know yourself too.

Speaker 2 (11:52):

Yeah. Yeah. It's so hard. And, and, and remember, and everyone watching this that values is a live document. It's okay for that to evolve and change mm-hmm <affirmative> and grow and, and, and shift in your different life stages. I love the brushing teeth and keys. I was thinking of one that really worked for me once I I made it my password. So every day, oh, that's, that's smart type in. That's clever, you know, I had this focus area and I'd type in with some symbols and things and it just that repetition every day was in front of me when I was typing it in.

Speaker 1 (12:21):

That's so beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. It's these little life hacks that can make a difference. And it's just these little doses of inner work done on a consistent basis that kinda up to a lot. I love it. So Sean, I would love to hear since we're talking about things that you and I have done, but I would love to hear kind of a coaching story or two about how you worked with a client to, to establish an inner work practice and, and how that came about and what it looked like or anything you wanna share around that.

Speaker 2 (12:54):

Yeah. you know, I, I'm thinking of two and, and first off, I don't think there's any coaching engagement I have ever had that doesn't get to some inner work. You know, we're always at some point kind of going there and, and you really just have to I'm thinking of one, you know, I, I was coaching someone and they were later in career and they'd done well. They were in tech early and had a great career and they were, they were hitting a point where they kind of had to figure out a future, maybe the last 10 years of the career. And naturally they should have just gone up the hierarchy in become a senior vice president or, or maybe make a company or something. And we're doing coaching. And I, and I was sensing that this person was kind of eh, about this.

Speaker 2 (13:44):

And so we went to inner work, we did values. We went really raw, really small. And this person started exploring a lot of these things that were pulling them. And they realized the things that were pulling them weren't really pulling them. So when it came down to it, they had enough money when it came down to it, they had enough of their career. They were kind of done with that. When it came down to it, they, they, they tapped into this kind of old dream of, of a bit of this wandering life. And they, they came up with this picture of exploring and being in the world and being untethered and they'd launched their kids and they were just ready to like live this wow. Another chapter and wow. It was really powerful and we started just small experimenting with it.

Speaker 2 (14:26):

You know, what would you do if you leaned into this? And they, they actually said, you know what, I'd tell, I'd probably tell my boss, like you got me for four years and just that's it. And I was like, all right, right. Do you wanna do that? And they did that. And they started building these things, putting in these little blocks and at the end of coaching they had ordered their Airstream there in the list. And they had you know, were, were looking at the trucks and they, they practiced this a few times and they were just gonna go on this kind of large open-ended journey with their life and just, just kinda live that, that retirement dream that they wanted to. And they were even doing a little earlier than I think they would've, if they didn't stop and think about what they want, you know, we get that.

Speaker 2 (15:07):

I love all the time people come to coaching and, and sometimes they do it because wanna maximize their careers. And I say, what do you want? They say, I want a promotion. I say, why they say, I want more money. And I say, how much? And they go I say, let me guess all of it. <Laugh> like, you want all the money and, and that's not realistic. And then we shift to values and they realize a lot of times they actually have the resources they need and, and that they're just not living them. And, and so let's live it now today, let's link into it in any way. So it's a really great story, you know, still get updates from that person. And they're, they're loving it. They're living that dream and doing their thing.

Speaker 1 (15:43):

What a beautiful story, Sean, and it just illustrates that this doesn't have to be this huge overhaul, scary process that it can be done in these little stretch. And then maybe we stretch a little bit more and experiment and with, with a coach there to guide you, that can make such a big difference, but it all starts right with that inner work and inner landscape work and looking in into values too. Another question I have for you is just what trends or what kind of inner work practices have you seen and across members that people are finding really impactful?

Speaker 2 (16:16):

Yeah, that, that's a great question. Again, I said earlier, I kind of categorize things and I make this, nobody hold me to this. This is what I'm saying today. But I think I would put like four areas. Maybe this is like a menu for you. I see inner work tends to be physical, emotional, spiritual, or social. And I think in social, I would put like career family, world, like, like human social. And I find people go to one of those categories. Now, a lot of times it's gonna be the category they need, you know, that everybody's life is unique and different, as we said, everybody's at different levels in this. And I know your background in, in psychology and I used to be a family therapist. And so I, I think developmentally, you know, and, and some people dress those at different stages. And it's really interesting when people come to these, when they finally wanna take their body seriously or their, their mental wellness seriously, or their spiritual life seriously. And it's just fun watching people go through that. And so I think those are probably the, the categories I see. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:21):

I love the categories because I think it's easy to think. Well, inner work is just about going inward, but sometimes we go inward. We can think about our social connections or we're thinking about our physical health and our bodies. Sometimes we're operating so much from the neck up. We are so dis affected from our bodies, especially knowledge workers. And so a chance to get back into your body is part of getting back into knowing yourself as well. I know we're nearing time, but I have one more question for you, Sean. Sure. for everyone out there who's watching, if you could leave an inspiring share, inspiring quote with them, or some challenge to get them motivated, to start inner work process, what would you

Speaker 2 (18:03):

Say? I'm from Pittsburgh, I'm a fan of Mr. Rogers as a famous quote, if you can mention it, you can manage it. If you can mention it, you can manage it. Ah, I tell so many people name it. What do you call this thing? In my coaching, I also, when people use words, like they say things like I need synergy. I say, well, what does that mean? And I, if you name it, define it. Now I say, grab one of these, grab one of these. And I tell my, you have it ready. <Laugh> God, I'm you are assaulted by inspiration daily. You're assaulted by inspiration every minute. Maybe you're seeing something in the background wondering about these things I got hanging or the things in your background. Maybe you're hearing something we say and a piece of you goes, oh, Hey, that, that would be interesting.

Speaker 2 (18:45):

You mentioned backpacking. I always wanted to do that. And we just let it go. We let it blow away and the wind. And so if you got that, that pen and paper, write these things down try backpacking someday. I wanna look at these silk rope courses, whatever that means. And then in those moments of thriving, when you got nothing better to do, and you got an extra 50 bucks in your pocket, pull out the list and just say, oh, okay, here I go. I got this thing. And maybe just have faith in it. That that was your inspiration. And so yeah, I think that would be a great exercise. You could do it right now do it for the next week. Just keep a notepad and, and look for inspiration.

Speaker 1 (19:18):

That's beautiful. There are so many moments of inspiration every day. There's moments of beauty that we miss or let's fly by. So I love capturing those things and, and writing it down so that it's stored. Thank you so much, Sean. That is all the time we have for today to everyone in the audience. I hope you take some time and take some of those lessons that we discuss and use them for your own inner work practices moving forward. And thank you for showing up and be well.

Speaker 1 (00:01):

Good afternoon, everyone back again. Chad Thomas, regional vice president of BetterUp. And we're really excited to do this session today on how to meditate like a pro athlete. And so I have the honor of bringing in P Gazal, one of my favorite all time, big men, and now posters career has done some pretty incredible things. And for those who don't know Pal's record, let me just read this off a bit. Pal GSA is a six time NBA Allstar, a two time NBA champion and a three time Olympic medalist. And so for those that were able to catch Pal's earlier session today with kicking off in a Workday with a mindful moment, I hope that set everybody at a good pace and to be in the right head space to have this conversation today. And so we've invited P back to actually have a deeper conversation on how meditation and mindfulness has actually helped him as a professional, both on and off the court. P so excited to have you here today.

Speaker 2 (00:55):

Thank you, Chad. It's a pleasure. It's a pleasure to be here with you today and with all of you and talk about meditation and mindfulness.

Speaker 1 (01:01):

Yeah, well, pal, I want to just get things kicked off. You know, we've heard from a lot of different experts today on the power of inner work and how doing that intentional work to make sure our psychological resources inside our whole that were calm, that we're focused, but I think we could all benefit a bit from hearing from your personal experience. And so I really like to understand how, how has inner work impacted your life as a player and now going to the next phase of life post retirement?

Speaker 2 (01:30):

Well, it's been very important just as you practice and you prepare your body physically, you also have to practice and strengthen your mind and work on your mind and your emotions. So it's just pretty much understanding that that's also has to be part of your preparation. And it's it's something that you try to do incorporate as a habit in, in your daily routine. It's something that just comes out naturally and little by little, you see, you see the results. So it's very important to be mentally aware, emotionally aware of what's going on with you and your life and and be very intentional as well, right. With what you want to do. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> where, where are you where you wanna go, et cetera, how are you feeling? Saying you know, that's how it's helped me in my, in my provide me with balance from my, throughout my, and also now in the, in the next, in the next phase, next chapter,

Speaker 1 (02:29):

You know, I, I like that you said intentional because I want to sort of start back at the beginning when you joined the league just a, a few years ago. I can't imagine that the word meditation or mindfulness was something that a lot of teams or a lot of players would often talk about. Like at all, I just know what the league was like. So can you bring us back to that moment? Like what was going on with you personally that made you even wanna start to investigate a bit more into this practice?

Speaker 2 (02:56):

Well definitely I did not hear the concept of mindfulness and meditation prior, really my arrival to, to LA with, with Phil Jackson mm-hmm <affirmative> before it was just you know, like many other kids or athletes and making into the league. It's you're fulfilling a dream dream in it's coming true. Something that you have worked for and, and you really dreamt for many years as a, as a kid and a teenager comes with fruition. So there's a lot of excitement. A lot of emotion, a lot of joy, also a lot of pressure. It's a very competitive league wants everyone's trying to do well. Everybody's fighting for the spot. Everybody wants to play. Everybody feels like they can play and not everyone can or will. So so yeah, going through those ups and downs, it's, it's challenging.

Speaker 2 (03:54):

And and, but when I got to LA and I got exposed to, to meditation through, through Phil was an eye opening, really an eyeopening. At first it was like weird. It was like, okay, what's going on? But like everything else that you feel it's worth trying, and it can have a very positive effect in your life you know, you give it a try and you see everyone else around you really buying in and taking it seriously. And and, and you, and you start giving it a try and, and then you see the effects, the payoff you scratching the surface of something that that it's unknown. Yeah. And it's a little bit, like I said, it's a little bit uncomfortable at first, but then little by little you're like, okay, this is, this is something there's something here that I need to continue to pursue. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:50):

Do you remember a specific moment when you first started with meditation? Like when, when you did that and sort of how you felt afterwards, like cognitively or physically?

Speaker 2 (05:00):

Yeah, I did you know there was a certain sense of relief physically of relaxation, kind of a little bit of a weight coming off your shoulders. And then I think mentally and emotionally, there was a level of, of connectivity also, cuz we, we did team sessions with mm-hmm <affirmative> with the rest of the guys and in the video room and lights off, everybody just breathing together. And there was a certain level, like I said, of, of connecting with your teammates, knowing that we're in this together we're in a quest to try to do something special, to win a championship. And we're able to do that for two years in LA with three straight finals, we give ourselves three chances and we capitalize on two of 'em. Yeah. And you know, and those, those moments really of, of coming together of focusness of blocking the noise. Yeah. it was, they were powerful.

Speaker 1 (05:59):

I appreciate that. And you know, we look at meditation at better up, it's just a form of inner work. And so, you know, focusing on that inner work clearly has had some impact positively to you as a player. And now off the court, I'm curious though, we can like think a little bit more about you as an athlete because you can focus and being in top physical peak performance is really important, but there's this other component, right. Which is mental fitness, which I might argue is just as important or is not more important. Right. If your mental health is not in a great place, then it's gonna be hard for you to physically perform. And I mean, we've seen over the last two or three years at athletes from every single sport have talked about the challenges they face in mental health and that vulnerability hasn't always been met with, you know, I'd say empathy or sympathy, but sometimes with shame, can you talk to us about what are the conversations happening in sports today about the challenges of mental health? Oh,

Speaker 2 (06:56):

Absolutely. Yeah. well, luckily today and thanks to all those athletes that have been brave to speak about their mental health and their emotional state it has created a, a big, much bigger conversation and it's given mental health the attention that it deserves. So there's no question that mental health will affect your performance whether it's on the court as an athlete or whether it's at your job or at home with your family when you're feeling depressed or anxious or, you know really worried that vulnerable, extra vulnerable grieving, whatever it might be pressured you you know, it affects your, your actions, your behavior. You know, and, and you've, we've seen a lot of athletes that you know, you are accustomed scene and perform at such a high level. And athletes are viewed sometimes as super humans, but, but we're not a we're, we're just we're human beings that we've been gifted with a specific athletic talent or, or ability to play a game a certain way.

Speaker 2 (08:07):

But we're, we're human beings. We have emotions, things go on on our life. And it's hard to, to talk about them at times, especially openly, publicly, or even in the locker room. Because it's, it's hard to show vulnerability in the locker room with a sport that is so competitive. It is hard to kind of open up but now more, more, or I think, I would say all teams have a sport psychologist on board a door open to be able to, to, to share those, those struggles or those moments and kind of weather 'em with support instead of just by yourself. So so I'm glad that that a lot of progress has been made and I'd like to continue to see it grow. Because again, there's just a lot of, a lot of challenges that go on for, for people and for athletes that are under the scope or under pressure. Yeah. And they're not provided or don't have the tools to, to be able to handle those, those situations, just like many other people, right. No one is really is born with, with all the tools to deal with the adversity, the life throw throws it, you, you, and so so I'm glad that things are going in the right direction.

Speaker 1 (09:19):

Yeah. Well, I think we've made so much progress just with us being able to talk about it a bit more in sport, or even even publicly here you know, the bunking that shame around something going on with your mental health and, and hiding it. We're seeing, that's also showing up in the workplace. And what I think is really incredible is just how you've been still been able to prioritize this concept of meditation and mindfulness. If I think about your life Posta league, you have the docus series going on with Amazon prime, you're leading the POL foundation. The, I mean, you're doing business ventures with better up in other organizations. You, you still take the time to meditate. Can you tell us, like how has that meditation helped you manage all of these various hats that you're wearing?

Speaker 2 (10:07):

Again, it keeps you centered and it keeps you mindful. And it keeps you in touch with your emotions in your body as well. So again, I've, I've gone through different depending of, of what I'm going through. I like to meditate more in the morning, or I like to do it more at night if I do it more at night, which has been kind of what I've done lately for the last few years it's more to decompress to allow and help my body shut down to get good quality sleep, to be thankful for another great day. But also to listen to my body and listen to my, to my mind and say, okay, what's, what's hurting. What's what, what is carrying a little more, more attention or you know, what am I struggling with?

Speaker 2 (11:00):

And, and usually your mind will let you know. So, but again at night is where I decompress. I use guided meditation and and I go to bed. It's been a little more challenging sometimes with, with a baby, but you gotta, you know, you gotta find a way to, to do it. And then, then you shift it if you can't do it before bed. And when you're in bed laying down, I do it in the morning. And then you start up a day and you start with a body scan with a GA gratitude. It's a fresh start, it's a new day to do great, to learn, to thrive. And and you go into it with a different type of mindset with, with intentionality as well as like, okay, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that. You know, and and it gives you that, that energy and that edge going into a new day.

Speaker 1 (11:50):

Yeah. I, I wanna just think about this for the folks that aren't, you know, clearly a two time NBA champion have played in professional sports in our moguls, but just talking about sort of the everyday person, I'm sure a lot of people say they don't have the time to meditate or, or they don't know how, or they're not sure that's a priority. What advice would you give someone that's struggling to feel out how to make time to be mindful?

Speaker 2 (12:15):

Well, it's, it really doesn't take that much time at all. You know, I was, I was hanging out with a friend yesterday and he was listening to this podcast. I can't remember who it was from. And he said, you know, meditation, sometimes it could be just as short as sticking three deep breath three long deep breaths of just noticing and feeling the air, going into your body, into your lungs, being present, acknowledging where you are, who you are being thankful for being here in this moment, being alive. And then kind of relaxing a little bit. If you're going into a meeting, if you're going into, you know, an appointment if you're going through, you know, about to start a workout, say, Hey, I'm going, I'm gonna have a good meeting, or I'm gonna have a good you know, a good workout.

Speaker 2 (13:10):

And it just kind of like gives you, you know, and it's, it could be again, 30 seconds. I mean, I would suggest that if you have the time say, Hey, five minutes, five minutes a day, it's, I mean, we waste so much time probably during the day with, with our phones and technology. And again, it could be as little as 30 seconds, or it could be as long as 1530 minutes know to start off your day to go to bed. It obviously decompressing sleeping meditations and sure. Just kind of, you know, Hey, I'm having a stressful day. It's a lot going on in my life. Let me just decompress. Let me just listen to this meditation and, and, and just relax so I can get a good night's sleep.

Speaker 1 (13:52):

Yeah. So pat, with, with your amazing accomplished career, I'm wondering if you can recall a specific game or moment during your NBA career where you actually saw the benefits of meditation and mindfulness. Could, could you explore that a bit with us?

Speaker 2 (14:08):

Yes, absolutely. I mean, there's been many games, many I've had the privilege to play big games where we fought for, for championships. The playoff playoff runs finals, many finals with my national team as well. And I think the times where I phase those moments and when I did it more successfully is when I was able to really be in tune with myself to be really present to block off all the noise, all the pressure. And it just kind of, you put yourself in that mindset of going into a game where it's like, okay, I'm, I'm ready, I'm ready mentally. I'm ready, physically. I'm ready emotionally. Awesome. And I recall that game seven actually that game seven against the Celtics at staple center. Yeah. And we won that championship in 2010.

Speaker 2 (15:03):

I remember the day before going to the beach and just sitting down by myself. You know, usually when you put yourself around or surrounded by nature, whether it's on the beach by the ocean or it's in the mountain, or, you know, in a garden or a park in a quiet place by yourself, that's where you can really focus and be at peace and be in an environment where it's more conducive to, to have a good session without any distractions or interference. So I remember just sitting on the beach I say, Hey, look at this, I'm in a beautiful place. I'm in a quiet place, tomorrow's a big day. I'm gonna give you my best. I'm ready. We're gonna get this win. And, and that was a, you know, an epic game, an epic moment in, in my, in my career. Yes. In Laker's history one of the, you know, probably toughest and best serious in NBA history and and obviously a great outcome for us. And it wasn't the prettiest game. <Affirmative> I remember it was like, I don't know if it was like 83, 79 yeah. Score, which would be unimaginable today in today's game. Exactly. but we were, we were so resilient. We fought our way back into the game. We fought our way back into the victory and it was it was just incredible.

Speaker 1 (16:32):

Well, thank you so much. I mean, P you've really made it clear that even in these micro moments of meditation and mindfulness, we can all actually decompress and just expand our mind a little bit by slowing down. So I really appreciate you coming out for the session today. Thank you so much for all the work you're continuing to do with better up and for everyone to it's tuned in. I hope that you've been able to get some inspiration on how you can incorporate meditation and mindfulness as a normal part of your daily or your weekly routine. So it's P thank you so much again, really appreciate

Speaker 2 (17:05):

It. Chad, thank you for the opportunity. Thank you for the conversation. Thanks everyone for tuning in and hope you know that meditation and it becomes a, an important part of your life. And you'll see the results. Yeah. I can

Speaker 1 (17:17):

Guarantee it. Thank you so much. And so everybody, we have one more session left today, and this is when you absolutely do not wanna miss join us as our CEO, Alex Rob show, and our chief impact officer Terry, the duke of Sussex, bring along the legendary Serena Williams, the facilitated conversation on how we can all boldly commit to inner work. It's not one you don't wanna miss see you there as always peace and blessings.